More Questions...
A typical question posed by an unbeliever when faced with the idea that the rejection of Jesus Christ ultimately results in an eternity in Hell goes something like this: "Well, what about all those people in Africa or the jungles of South America who never hear about Jesus? Are they going to Hell?" A typical answer that I have heard for this question is that God makes himself known to everyone at at least one point in their lives whether it be through dreams, revelation through creation, that little tugging at your "heart strings"/"God shaped hole", or any of a number of possible scenarios. For a long time this answer satisfied my concerns. However, with age, my mind has this tendency to go and screw everything up. There I was perfectly satisfied with my answer to the question of the so-called "unreached" and their eternal fate.
Now, today, our main source of knowledge throughout most of the modern world about the nature of God and our guide on how to live this life is the Bible (in Christianity). Now, of course this has not always been the case. In fact, in the grand scheme of things the Bible is a relatively recent development. What did people do before we had this book? Now, I still subscribe to the belief that God does place a burden on man's heart to know Him. I believe that we inherently know that there is a god. Almost every notable psychologist in history has dealt with man's search for meaning and why he feels he must search for meaning. Without going too much deeper into this topic it all seems to point to an inexplicable, innate knowledge of the existence of God. With that said, I'm going to set up a hypothetical situation.
Five thousand years ago on the continent we now call North America there lived a man who was the leader of his tribe. We will call him Doug. Doug finds himself searching for meaning in life. He wants to know how he got here. He wants to know where this land he is standing on came from. He wants to know what makes rain fall from the sky, the sun rise in the morning and set at night, where the wind comes from and why he can feel it but not see it. He believes that there must be some greater being, a god, and he has an inexplicable desire to know this god. Doug has no Bible, obviously. Even if he did he can't read and no missionary ever comes to explain God to him. Doug develops his own idea of god and he worships this god. As leader of his tribe he explains his god to all the members of the tribe who, because Doug is the leader and therefore obviously the most intelligent, believe him. This tribe goes on to develop a systematic way of worshiping this god. Rituals evolve and a religion is born based on this man's understanding of this god that he experiences.
At the same time, on the continent we now call Asia, thousands of miles away from Doug, lives another man who is the leader of his tribe. We will call him Bob. Bob too experiences the same search for meaning and feels that there is some greater being whom he desires to know and experience. In much the same way as Doug, Bob develops a religion based on what he experiences and who he thinks that god must be. However, Bob's version of god is much different that Doug's. Neither Doug nor Bob are ever told by anyone who knows the truth about God. They're just doing the best they know how.
This throws a kink in the whole idea that God reveals himself to everyone at some point in their lives and it is up to each man to acknowledge Him and come to a correct understanding from this encounter. What about a person who acknowledges this revelation from God but misinterprets it? Yes, God is capable of making sure that He is properly understood, but if this were the case, everyone would know Him without flaw and the truth is that we don't. We mess things up and give Him a bad wrap all the time.
Now from a universalist point of view, Doug and Bob are both right and will both go to heaven regardless of the fact that they call upon two entirely different gods. If all religions are right and everyone is going to heaven, then there is no reason to even attempt to live for anyone but yourself because everyone is going to heaven. You might as well just enjoy life however you want to now because your eternal fate is already decided. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this right now. I think I'm just running in circles creating more questions that lead to even more questions. I personally believe that Jesus Christ is the only way, but I cannot account for what happens to those who never hear about him nor can I account for the cultural influences on religion and it troubles me greatly. I think that I should just stop writing now.
Now, today, our main source of knowledge throughout most of the modern world about the nature of God and our guide on how to live this life is the Bible (in Christianity). Now, of course this has not always been the case. In fact, in the grand scheme of things the Bible is a relatively recent development. What did people do before we had this book? Now, I still subscribe to the belief that God does place a burden on man's heart to know Him. I believe that we inherently know that there is a god. Almost every notable psychologist in history has dealt with man's search for meaning and why he feels he must search for meaning. Without going too much deeper into this topic it all seems to point to an inexplicable, innate knowledge of the existence of God. With that said, I'm going to set up a hypothetical situation.
Five thousand years ago on the continent we now call North America there lived a man who was the leader of his tribe. We will call him Doug. Doug finds himself searching for meaning in life. He wants to know how he got here. He wants to know where this land he is standing on came from. He wants to know what makes rain fall from the sky, the sun rise in the morning and set at night, where the wind comes from and why he can feel it but not see it. He believes that there must be some greater being, a god, and he has an inexplicable desire to know this god. Doug has no Bible, obviously. Even if he did he can't read and no missionary ever comes to explain God to him. Doug develops his own idea of god and he worships this god. As leader of his tribe he explains his god to all the members of the tribe who, because Doug is the leader and therefore obviously the most intelligent, believe him. This tribe goes on to develop a systematic way of worshiping this god. Rituals evolve and a religion is born based on this man's understanding of this god that he experiences.
At the same time, on the continent we now call Asia, thousands of miles away from Doug, lives another man who is the leader of his tribe. We will call him Bob. Bob too experiences the same search for meaning and feels that there is some greater being whom he desires to know and experience. In much the same way as Doug, Bob develops a religion based on what he experiences and who he thinks that god must be. However, Bob's version of god is much different that Doug's. Neither Doug nor Bob are ever told by anyone who knows the truth about God. They're just doing the best they know how.
This throws a kink in the whole idea that God reveals himself to everyone at some point in their lives and it is up to each man to acknowledge Him and come to a correct understanding from this encounter. What about a person who acknowledges this revelation from God but misinterprets it? Yes, God is capable of making sure that He is properly understood, but if this were the case, everyone would know Him without flaw and the truth is that we don't. We mess things up and give Him a bad wrap all the time.
Now from a universalist point of view, Doug and Bob are both right and will both go to heaven regardless of the fact that they call upon two entirely different gods. If all religions are right and everyone is going to heaven, then there is no reason to even attempt to live for anyone but yourself because everyone is going to heaven. You might as well just enjoy life however you want to now because your eternal fate is already decided. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this right now. I think I'm just running in circles creating more questions that lead to even more questions. I personally believe that Jesus Christ is the only way, but I cannot account for what happens to those who never hear about him nor can I account for the cultural influences on religion and it troubles me greatly. I think that I should just stop writing now.
posted by josh at 9:51 AM
12 Comments:
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I don't believe that the most important thing is what happens when we die because, like you said, there would really be no reason for us to be here at all. It would just be this really cruel joke where we have to experience this really sucky existence for nearly a century until we got to the "the good stuff".
You have a really good point though. If I say I believe in Hell...which I do...I should be completely stressed and utterly depressed everytime I hear that someone has died that I felt was not "saved". But I seem to have accepted it somehow and live in relative bliss until someone I really know personally dies and that makes me a sick person.
Well, here's my take on the whole thing. I do not think that Josh does not believe in hell, he just cannot comprehend its existence. Hell seems to be a tangible thing. But the difficult part is that hell is the only tangible thing that is incomprehensive. The aspects of God such as holiness, and righteousness are not things to be fully understood, but they are also not things to physically sensed by ourselves.There are aspects of God such as him blessing and his love that we can point to and understand as human beings the full implications of that action and idea. The probelem with the whole thing is we expect ourselves to understand hell and everything about it even though it sides with other incomprehensive ideas. Should we?
if that doesnt make any sense then let me know
adam...well put. i agree with you.
and i don't think we should expect to fully comprehend the idea of something like Hell...or Heaven for that matter.
Are we to believe that there is no punishment for evil? If God extends his grace over everyone and does not punish them then we should do the same here on earth. By putting people in prison are we going against God by punishing rather than forgiving. I think I just don't fully understand the universalist point of view. An eternity in torment seems overly harsh to me in almost any case. But at the same time, I can't see a serial rapist spending eternity in heaven with Mother Teresa. Perhaps it is just my human mind being unable to comprehend grace.
Well, you in your definition of hell you used the term eternity- the meaning of the term itself is incomprehensive. Now I am in no way saying that this is not an issue that needs to be dealt with. I do not think that it is an essential belief, but i do think it is important. I just don't want to tackle the issue from a strictly scriptural nor strictly rationable view. I guess my point is that i want to address the issue in humility, if that makes any sense.
Cherry, I'm sure Chris and I will talk about it at some point. But if we didn't post it on here you guys would not have the oh-so-wonderful benefit of getting to be in on the conversation
there is a term for someone who doesn't believes in hell or heaven, yet strives to live a righteous life...it's called a noble exstentianlist (if I spelled that right). Seems a like both an admirable and futile way to live...
Reading all of this stuff really makes me tired. I don't really have much to contribute to the conversation, but I think moral relativism has helped me deal with some of these issues. Now, I'm not sure that this would be the correct answer in the long run, but it makes it a whole lot easier for me at the moment. Not that I should be striving for an answer that makes me comfortable, but for now, it's what keeps me sane. And for those that don't know, moral relativism just means that while something maybe right for me, it may not necessarily be the right thing for you. I'm not positive this should be applied to the salvation issue, but I've already stated that I'm not sure I know much of anything these days. And in the Last Word and the Word After That, McLaren really pushes the idea that we shouldn't be obsessed with what happens after we die. But that's something that is really hard for me to do. Growing up Baptist, they really stressed heaven and hell, so again I don't know. Sorry, this is a lot of rambling.
If all those unreached people are going to heaven, the best thing we can do is to quit sending missionaries. In this case as long as they are ingornant, they are safe....as soon as they become aware of Jesus Christ...we put them in danger. We don't understand the ways of God, it certainly doesn't all make sense to our small minds...I do believe they will go to hell if they do not know......
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